Bass Bass Bass

[MeAlien27]

Okay, my band just got done recording our full length in our basement studio. I am very happy with how everything sounds for the most part, with one exception, the bass. It sounds fine by itself, good levels, pretty good tone and definition. However, with everything in the mix, it just sounds muddy. It soudns good when he is playing the higher strings, but when he hits that E, it just sounds like dull low end noise.

Id be very curious to hear how you guys treat bass in post production. I have tried many different compression/EQ combinations. I think the fix might be in mastering, getting the right comp and EQ combinations. I have all the waves plugins, so I feel like I should have the tools to get a good sound and good overall mix. I just want to be able to hear what note the bass is playing, without cranking it up in the mix so much that it dominates.

If anyone would care to hear a song to better understand what I'm talking about, I'd be happy to post one...it's sort of a Sublime like sound.

[EGS]

Mudd Mudd Mudd. Try -5db at about 280hz, and play with the Q untill its sounds good. Compress to taste. Hi-pass any non low-end instruments. Monitor on a big/medium/small speakers, as well as headphones.

[albee1952]

EGS is right on the money. Low end is almost never accurate in a home studio unless you spent lots of time/money on bass traps. Comparing over many different speakers can give you a fighting chance. Just maybe, the bass is good, but the room makes it sound bad.

[JFreak]

when he hits that E, it just sounds like dull low end noise.



Use a low-cut filter. Yes, you have to cut bass to get more bass

You have probably just DI'd the bass, and therefore there is too much going on in the sub-50Hz area. Too much energy, too little articulation. Perhaps a 50Hz filter is too radical (the bass becomes wimpy), but at least try to cut somewhere between 31 and 40 - or if the filter is not very steep, even higher.

Many times I record bass via Shure UHF wireless system, because that radio system has a nice bottom-end behaviour. It begins to cut at 50Hz and has attenuated the signal 3dB at 40Hz, and from there on the signal begins to attenuate faster. This gives the instrument a very good articulation all the way to the lowest note. Granted, I use 18V active EMG electronics on my Warwick, which has great natural growl, but anyway, seriously: try this. Less is more.

[Petander]

Good advice all the above.

I just happen to struggle on a new bass track right now, a fretless five string tuned one step down, quite often there´s the low A involved in this particular tune. My playing isn´t exactly phenomenal on that track either, just got that bass back from a long loan.

Cutting some of the lowest lows, adding some mid precense helped (cut a hole in guitars for that if you can) but the best help came from a basic simulated guitar amp that did all those tweaks plus added quite a lot of compression and punchy distortion that makes a bass track sound more alive. That´s an old trick, seems to work today as well hehe. Also make sure that BD and bass are not fighting for same frequencies too much in the first place.

Try some amps on it - especially if it´s DI:d. A multiband compander like Sonalksis CQ1 may help too, it´s one of my favorites for bass and well worth the money.

[RadioMoo]

Try a high pass filter, slashing everything below 50Hz, and boost a little around 1100Hz. There's a psychoacoustic effect that happens when you chop off the low end that makes it sound like there's actually more bass content; the boost at 1100 will bring out the pluck of the strings for better definition. Also, some 4:1 compression might "reign in" some of the wild bass energy and help the track to stand out in the mix better. But like someone else said, check your mix on a variety of speakers to make sure you really know what you're hearing.

[rockrev]

Someone earlier mentioned an amp/cab simulator - and that's exactly what I would try first. For example, use Amplitube LE on a duplicate of the DI bass track, find a nice setting that helps your low end "come together," and blend back with the DI track to taste. I had to do that on my song "Drive," which you can listen to here: http://www.jenningsweb.com/metonic-cycle/

rockrev

[MeAlien27]

Thanks everyone, definitely some good stuff. I have been cutting the low end, but usually around 100 or 150, so I will try cutting everything lower than that and see how it goes.

ALso, how do you guys feel about the R-Bass waves plug?

[rockrev]

Waves Renaissance Bass and its big brother, Maxx Bass, are very useful tools for enhancing bass harmonics; however, if the bass guitar was recorded correctly, you shouldn't need them at all. I have found them extremely useful when a bass guitar sounds too thin, or just plain lacking in the low end. It can really work wonders for a wimpy bass guitar. Maxx Bass can be useful on a stereo mix that's lacking low end - specifically a mix that cannot be remixed from scratch (which would be the ideal fix). If you're suffering from mud, RenBass and/or MaxxBass isn't going to do much on it's own - in fact, they might make the mud worse.

rockrev

[powerjoe]

EGS is right on the money. Low end is almost never accurate in a home studio unless you spent lots of time/money on bass traps. Comparing over many different speakers can give you a fighting chance. Just maybe, the bass is good, but the room makes it sound bad.




Hey guys, I hope you are all doing well. I need to start visiting more often!

I just wanted to intimate that much of what you are experiencing can be related to improper or NO acoustic treatment in the space where you are doing your mixing. Many, many, many people have trouble with incorrect bass response in their mixes due to the lack of proper and INEXPENSIVE acoustic treatment. I talk to folks all day who tell me that their mixes sound really good in their mix room, but when they take it to the car, their mixes are bass heavy/ muddy. If you can tame those standing waves and modes that will not let your ears here what is really coming from your monitors, you can correct your mixing BEFORE you listen to it elsewhere. And, your ears will begin to hear what is neccessary to make your mix count the first time around and to help it "travel" well.

Simply using a rigid acoustical fiberglass product like Owens Corning 703, and some breathable fabric to wrap these panels can make a hella big difference on your room modes. You can trap bass modes that are bouncing all over your room and eventually ending up in corners. And for the price of a decent home studio mic, you can make some good acoutical panels/bass traps that will have an immediate impact on what you hear in your mix, and your final product. There are a number of resources out there for such materials to build your traps, and some specialized DIY "kits" to make the process or making and mounting them as easy as making pancakes. Nothing to it, actually.

The John L Sayers (http://www.johnlsayers.com) forum as well as Studio Tips Forum (http://www.forum.studiotips.com) offer great advice on treating your room once and for all, and plans to do so easily.

If (and I hope you do) end up treating your room in some way, please post back and let us know what difference it has made in your mix. I think you will be amazingly suprised.

Good luck!

[EGS]

Great thread. Totally agree about room treatment. As you are mixing, try to A/B with a commercially released CD that you know translates well. One more tip - for yet another point of reference, try a pair of AKG-K171 headphones. I think they give a great representation of the mix.

[Petander]

Great thread. Totally agree about room treatment. As you are mixing, try to A/B with a commercially released CD that you know translates well.




Yes,definitely. Your good old reference-CD:s that you´re familiar with come in handy wherever you go.

[RadioMoo]

One more thing: the more I thought about this, the more it occured to me also that your tracking space might be the culprit; if you get that funky "E" when listening on other systems/in the car, etc., then it's the tracking room; if not, it's your mixing space.

[DJ Loon]

yeah i was searching for bass came up on this threadage..dont mean to hijack, but still learning this complex program, i had a question, how would one turn down the bass in a beat, see im doin a mixtape and im a dj too so im tryin to learn everthing. i tried the eq and i can hear the bass being taken down but when it seems its turns the beat down also, so when i try to turn it back up it peaks in red, not sure if im doin right, any help is appreciated thanks in advance. i have to turn the bass down tremendous when i play it in the ride..!

[JFreak]

yeah i was searching for bass came up on this threadage..dont mean to hijack, but still learning this complex program, i had a question, how would one turn down the bass in a beat, see im doin a mixtape and im a dj too so im tryin to learn everthing. i tried the eq and i can hear the bass being taken down but when it seems its turns the beat down also, so when i try to turn it back up it peaks in red, not sure if im doin right, any help is appreciated thanks in advance. i have to turn the bass down tremendous when i play it in the ride..!



insert a low-shelving eq to lower the overall bass energy, and then use a normal bell curve eq to bring up the kick

[mastermorris]

I use the bass pod in the studio and get great sounding bass tracks. I would recommend recording the bass direct.

[MX582]

latley ive been recording a band with a dropped "C" tuned bass..jesus h..anyway i just messed around with the frequency alittle bit and it fits in pretty good right around 250-280 hz

[ondruspat]

Bass guitars are tricky in a mix. Sometimes a bass that sounds great on it's own is terrible in the mix, and a bass sound that is horrid on it's own is awesome in a mix. I recorded an album with Big Ass Busdriver (Adventures in the Space Urn) with a totally blown out distorted bass tone that was nasty on it's own but tied everything together in the mix.

[tommy gunn]

Ton of great advice on this post I think everybody is given much needed useful information---- sound treatment of your mixing room will help tons! of course,,, and likewise sound treatment of the room your recording the bass in is MAJOR---there is a reason all the big boys in commercial studios have space!,,I recorded my band several times in a 13x11 remodeled out building using my laundry room as a "control room" and running a snake from there to the building,,,, as hoaky as it sounds it worked well except for the sound quality,,,, there was no good treatment in the room,,, I later got the opportunity to buy an abbandoned movie theater building on the square of my home town.... we moved in and started recording there.. I have approx 20 ft tall dome ceilings and as a result I am able to move my mics futher away from the sound sources (still talking inches) and getting much fuller sounds,, and no wishy washy cymbals--- I have also placed office partitions completely around the room about 4ft in from the walls,,,, just because I had them and it seems to really be working! so definately this stuff matters,, in the current room setup I rarely need plugins,,, which is something I never thought possible! i find myself inserting plugs on the master and bame really good stuff,,,


all that aside,,, I can't stress enough how the RNC compressors has performed for me in the Bass Gtr secenario! for the money you can't go wrong,,, it is amazingly simple to use,,, I even turn the gain up enough to get a little dist.. grit that really rips! and brings the B line through----------I use the RNC to take the bass straight into pro tools,, and I don't record the amp,,, after all is said and done I have the option to re amp and really spend some time to get the amp sound ( I already snagged the performance, and now I have all the time in the world to re amp and experiment with mics and amp settings, etc.... without fatique on the bass player) it really isn't alot of work to do this when compared to the amount of work it can take to fix that great performance, that has a bad sound----------in a nut shell I like having options! and alot of times we end up loving the original bass straight into the RNC----and sometimes that sound with an amp sim? u never know!

one last bass technique I use sometimes is "ducking" with a compressor best explained i think is Motley Crues "doc feelgood" the bass and kick are right on top of each other but both come through full force,, I get this type of sound sometimes by putting a compressor on the bass gtr track and using the kick track as the input for that compressor----when the kick hits the comp is on and the bass is reduced,,, when the kick is released the comp is off and the bass resumes volume--- it is simple and fun to play with this technique and sometimes lets u push your bass a little harder in the mix than you might have been able to? and sometimes also makes a bass player sound more in "time" than he might have been?

last but not least ,, a harmonic exciter can really amz u! but becareful you can find yourself using it more than you should just because it is a quick fix to a pleasing sound.... but not always the right answer,, and like alot of things it can have some draw backs!

have fun!

tommyg

[tommy gunn]

P.S,, My best bass tracks have always sounded Awful when solo'd!! they are usually very klunky and noisey? but in the mix they sing? i don't know why but that has been the case?

tommyg

[chahende]

P.S,, My best bass tracks have always sounded Awful when solo'd!! they are usually very klunky and noisey? but in the mix they sing? i don't know why but that has been the case?

tommyg



I agree with that, just wish I would have figured it out before I spent so much time trying to get the bass sounding great solo'd.