Your work flow when fixing timing (BD or manual)?

[tlester]

Hi all -

I was curious as to people are doing work flow wise when you know you are going to have to do some timing corrections either w/ Beat Detective or manually? I have a project coming up with a really fun band, but their drummer isn't very tight. I usually don't mind a little slop as it adds to the groove, but I'm fairly certain this is going to be beyond what I would consider to be "within acceptable thresholds"

So... to keep the overall feel smooth, I was thinking working like this:

- Tracking full band
- Then edit drums and get the timing smoothed out
- Then re-track instruments to the corrected drum tracks

Is this how you guys work, or do you track to completion and then attempt to correct the timing of everyone? When you edit drums, do you usually edit the bass with it or do you recut the bass to match the edited drum tracks?

Just curious.

-Tom

[Ben B]

I think that would proabably give you good results. BD is great for drums and bass, but I sometimes don't like using it on certain types of guitar parts.

Ben B

[Hive Guy]

If find that I almost always get better results cutting "by hand". I will often use BD to slice a performance into regions, but rarely use it to quantize and "fill and crossfade." I usually end up moving parts myself. This way I have full control over region starts/ends and crossfade length/placement. Especially when the drummer is on the ride, I think the end result is much smoother and natural sounding. I also tend to move bass to lock to the kick/snare, more often than quantizing whole drum parts (this is more a sonic consideration for me than a feel consideration -- I think it gives way more consistency to the bottom end when bass and kick land in the same relation to each other all, or most of the time).

Working manually, I also have control as to whether I move a hit or not, based on whether it _sounds_ good or not--I try not to rely on whether it _looks_ right against the grid. I'm a human with real ears, and I'll always make better decisions than my software.

[tlester]

I'm much more of a "manual" guy too, because I just want to fix where it really got off track. I like to leave the feel as much as possible. However... I'm more curious as to what stage you guys do this. I.e.

- Are you cutting drums, then fix.
- Drums and bass together, then fix.
- All tracking complete and it's the last step before you mix.

Or something different all together. I know there's not a "right way", I'm just curious as to how others do it.

-Tom

[SilkBasilar]

If possible I would track just the kit with a guide instr.... make the kit fixes manually THEN move on to tracking your next instr, making the fixes you need as you go.

It can be time consuming (keystrokes save lives) and may break the flow for the performer/s but IF tight is what your after then this will save you going back over ground during the same project. That said, always pull back from your tight focus on the grid and check your overall context or you may just be creating a stale or flat groove... depending on the program material of course..

(TIP..tell your drummer that "you could not have fixed his timing unless it was very close to start with", he will have already cursed his sloppy arms during the rec sessions and be suffering mild depression) good luck.

[mikeoxbig]

- Tracking full band
- Then edit drums and get the timing smoothed out
- Then re-track instruments to the corrected drum tracks




IMO this would give you the best results.

[C_F_H_13]

It really all depends on how good I've judged the band being BEFORE we go into the studio. If the bass/guitar players are weak players, and I know that I'll be fixing them either way, I'll let them track to unfixed drums. I do this so that I can save money in a tracking studio, and save all the editing for when I'm at home on my own clock....not someone elses. It really all depends on the budget. If someone else is footing the bill and is willing to spend extra time in the studio so that I can edit, I'll edit first.

[Sebastien Richard]

Heres how i do my BD thang.

I will run over the whole track once by hand, fixing all of the major errors to keep it sort of on.
Next i BD the song in sections from major fill to fill. I generally cant get BD to fix the fills right, and excluding them from the triggers will tend to work much better.
Once everything seems on track i go back and fix the fills.

Now for the reason you don't want to track the band to completion and fix the rhythm later:
Bad drummers rush fills, in fact it is the number one mark of a bad drummer. So, once you've repaired the drum tracks the song is often several seconds longer. Laying a drummer back will generally sound ok, but getting a guitar to sound right when laid back is not as easy. All of this can be avoided by using BD before continuing on from the drums and bass.

Hey, but thats just how i do it.

[rtm]

Ill let the band record to a click so they are tight.then I will let drummer have at in time session then manually edit.