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CEGray
10-14-2005, 01:22 AM
I haven't seen a list on any of these user conference threads that give details on what equipment I could purchase that would allow me to get that industry sound that I'm looking for? I hear that alot of studios are sending their tracks through SSL, Neve, Studer and ICON boards after they have done all the work at home to get that Industry sound.
Well, I would like to eliminate that step in the process by purchasing channel strips and front-ends to get that sound at home! What do I need to achieve this goal?
For starter's, I'll be tracking all Instruments and Vocals to a Digi 002 at 24bit/96kHz and I want to as much as possible! I'll be producing R&B, Rap, HipHop and Pop.
What I'm looking for is a detailed set-up from the Pre-amp, AD/DA converter, Compressor/Limiter, whatever is needed before I send that signal into Protools.
I understand that these products are expensive (Apogee Trak2, Summit Audio, Manley, XLogic) all around $3-4K ea. That's okay, just want to know how to go about it.


Thanks in advance, Peace

Scotty_OiArT
10-14-2005, 01:32 AM
Ignore below cause i read your post wrong, however it is still valid because it will explain alot of the Majoy Label Sound. Your Real Answer is at the bottom of this next post.
Thanks man,

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Sorry but I gotta jet since I need sleep,

Do a Web-Wide Search for 'Summing Bus'

www.gearslutz.com (http://www.gearslutz.com) could help too.

(Basically any DAW has to eventually add the tracks all together; in other words summ the tracks. The problem is that this is a Mathematical Undertaking in the Digital Realm... However if you take all of your tracks out of Protools one by one, into a channel strip of a console, and then let the console's summing buss mix them together... well its obviously voltages, not digital information, so its a different beast altogether.)

There Are Many solutions to acheieve a similar Major Label Professional Sound using Pro Tools LE...

And before anyone else tells you you do not have to go buy a better Clock or converters... They help but they are not always the biggest improvement you can make.

Analog simulator (anyone of 100+ different plugins can work) on every track can help.
Search Search Search thats all i can reccomend.

More Later,
Cheers,
-Scott
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Sorry I read part of your post wrong,
Yes, A good Mic, into a Good Mic Pre (Api, Neve, Many others..), followed by either a really good compressor, then a great A/D converter, into protools.... OR Mic -> Preamp -> Converter -> Protools Auxtrack -> Compressor Plugin -> Audiotrack, hit record... (don't digitally clip pre-compressor)
That will get you the Pro RECORDED sound your looking for, not the polished final mix... just the sound to tape (or harddrive in this case)

Regards,
-S

tantejo
10-18-2005, 08:23 AM
it's a good start recording with top equipment...
please be aware of the room you're recording, and the performer(s), and the engineer, en the room you're mixing/listening etc. if this is all top level you're in the right direction.
and i guess already in a prof. studio
greetings, johan.

Naagzh
10-18-2005, 11:11 AM
I guess I'd go at it like this:

For R&B / Pop vocals, a Neumann U87 is tough to beat. Remember, though, that different mics will like different voices, so you should have a few of them.

An Avalon mic pre makes sense here, too. Mic pres like Neve or API may be a bit too colored for your tastes, esp. in these genres, but I wouldn't rule them out. I'm in Detroit, and I know that Eminem's studio is outfitted with a Neve board. But then, they've got every piece of gear known to man at that place, too.

Some nice outboard compressors (LA2A, Distressor).

An eight-channel Apogee AD/DA converter would be nice. I'm thinking about picking one up soon. By the way, sample rates aren't everything, IMHO. 48 kHz can sound amazing with a nice converter, and 96 takes up alot of hard drive space and CPU power.

Some plugs I can't live without are Sansamp, Fairchild 660, PSP Vintagewarmer, Izotope Vinyl, and the Moogerfooger Bundle. I heartily recommend an analog-strip plug, and the best, most versatile EQ and Compressor plugs you can find.

An outboard harmonizer could be useful, especially for those "perfected" pop harmonies.

For monitors, I like the combination of NS10s AND KRKs. The KRKs are nicely scooped and translate well, while the NS10s are basically a challenge (they sound sufficiently bad that if a mix "works" on them, you're in good shape!). I couldn't leave this part out; it's too important.

Good luck!

CEGray
10-18-2005, 10:49 PM
Something like this:

Neumann U87 Large Diaphragm Condenser Microphone with Elastic Shockmount, Windscreen, and Cable. $2,849.99 + FREE Shipping
Avalon ADA2022 Class A Dual Mono Microphone / Instrument Preamp. $2,695.97 + FREE Shipping
Apogee 8-channel 24-bit/96kHz AD/DA Converter. $2,695.97 + FREE Shipping
Universal Audio Electro-Optical Compressor / Limiter with Tube Circuitry. $2,495.97 + FREE Shipping

So, what your saying is that with this set-up I'll be able to get that R&B, HipHop sound that's all over the Urban/Pop Radio's? Or at least, enough to compete with them?
And with this signal chain approach, Neumann into the Avalon from there to the Universal Audio and then to the Apogee into ProTools? If this is correct, and the sound that's on the hard-drive is what I'm looking for, why would additional plug-ins be needed (outside of reverbs/delays)? Oh, and by the way, I'll be mixing internally, so having an outboard mixer won't be necessary at this time.
Your right about the KRK's, I have the Rokit 8's along with the 10" Sub, once calibrated they translate very well for me!
Thanks, anyone else?

max cooper
10-20-2005, 09:29 AM
Oh, and by the way, I'll be mixing internally, so having an outboard mixer won't be necessary at this time.
Your right about the KRK's, I have the Rokit 8's along with the 10" Sub, once calibrated they translate very well for me!
Thanks, anyone else?



You might want to do some research into how your favorite records are mixed.

There may be a lot of outboard dynamics, EQ's and efx that you're not considering. There may be an SSL involved. And it's usually not just a matter of hooking them up and letting 'er rip. There are things going on in mixes that are difficult to hear, but that are important to the overall sound.

Nobody's gonna hear this, because I think people just like to buy gear; but how about getting a minimal system to demo your stuff on and then hiring out a studio + engineer to record for you. And then hire someone to mix it, and then someone to master it as well. Chances are you'll get a lot better product than you can the other way, and it's cool to learn new stuff; I don't know anyone who says they've stopped learning.

Oh... and get a C800G

max cooper
10-20-2005, 09:34 AM
Mic pres like Neve or API may be a bit too colored for your tastes, esp. in these genres, but I wouldn't rule them out. I'm in Detroit, and I know that Eminem's studio is outfitted with a Neve board.




I use API preamps for everything. I haven't found the source they don't sound good on. That said, I'd take a Neve over an Avalon whether I was recording hip hop, R&B, speed metal or the sound of paint drying.

12thandVine
10-27-2005, 03:29 AM
That's okay, just want to know how to go about it.



FWIW, there's actually a lot to be said for Max's approach ... and I'm not just saying that because I'm one of those 'someones' who masters things. There's a lot more creative stuff going on in most label releases than just gear and nice rooms. How often do you read in the industry mags (or CD sleeves for that matter) of nice material being recorded in one place, edited in another, mixed in yet another ... often by a third party ... and mastered somewhere else again? There are creative reasons for this.

Sure, a couple of SSL Channel Strips will go a long way to imparting that SSL sound but as Max said, there's other things going on as well: the room vibe, outboard gear that's usually selected to sympathetically add magic to the particular personality of a large format mixer and of course, more often than not, a serious ProTools system.

It's worth remembering that one of the really cool aspects of ProTools is that it helps to make this possible ... you can take the session to pretty well any quality studio anywhere in the world, load it up and you or someone else can be ready to start work before the analogue things have even warmed up.

That said, we're huge fans of Class A/tube path analogue gear and I'm the last one that's going to try and stop you spending large amounts of money on it. Avalons, Manleys and the rest of them all deserve nice homes.

Just my 2c.

Kind regards,
Paul Blakey
12th & Vine Post