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spaceman
09-05-2005, 06:25 AM
Getting to the stage where I might have to mix my own stuff in PT.

What do you guys put on the mix bus? At the mo I do it the Charles Dye way with AC1 on the bus as I mix.

Do you comp? Before or after you mix? How much?
Do you EQ on the mix bus?
Stereo widener?
Tape saturation plugs?

How much do you leave to the mastering guy?

It is very hard to compare mixes to commercial ones cos these have been mastered. Does anyone know a resource where I can get stereo mixes pre-master. I can then import these into my session and use them to reference my mix to.

thanks

PeterB
09-06-2005, 11:26 AM
Leave as much as you can to the mastering engineer. Remember, he cannot undo inappropriate compression.
yes, lots of styles of music do use compression on the 2bus, but if you are unsure of what you are doing, it is better left until the mastering.
While I am mixing, if I want to compare a comercial CD, I import it and lower it's fader until it feels the same level as my mix. I try to listen to it in terms of frequency spectrum and it's sonic qualities, as opposed to how loud it is [usually too loud, but that's a different story]
Try bouncing your mix without too much treatment on the 2bus. You can always import it into a fresh session and try your hand at improving it when you and your ears are fresh. That way you still have a "clean' version

Good luck

PB

spaceman
09-07-2005, 04:33 AM
cheers Peter

the problem with comparing the mix with mastered versions is that aswell as making it louder the mastering engineer
will doubtless also have put on EQ to sweeten the whole thing. I had mixes mastered at the Exchange that went in sounding less
than perfect. After a good master they came out sounding like a more polished record.

As far as I can gather from what I have heard and been in sessions on, alot of mixes are kinda mixed for the mastering guy. The best mixers don't get it sounding mega hi-fi, but enough so the mastering guy can work his tricks. Is this a fair point?

pony
09-10-2005, 09:33 AM
Yo Spaceman-

It is a personal choice as to what you do on your 2 buss. Some say leave it clean and have the mastering engineer do his/her magic. I say hogwash!!!!!!!!!!!! The problem is too many people have abused the 2 buss in the DAW world. Smashing things to [bleep] and distorting their mixes. There is however a "Right" way to go about it all. Believe me if you follow what I am about to say perfectly you will indeed have that "sound" that you desire. Now I must admit I do have a pretty expensive 2 buss chain but don't worry even with one of the plug-ins I will mention you will have vast improvement on your mixes. Here is what I do:

Master Fader 2 Buss
Plug IN- TC Master X turn off Limiter and turn off exciter set comp to 2:1 ratio adjust output as needed usually -3.5db
Plug IN - DUY Tape adjust input and out to -6db
Insert Outboard Gear- GML 8200 (very slight sweeting) to DCL 200 Summit Audio
Plug IN - DUY Wide Very little "Wide" effect and adjust to input output to -6db
*Mix with this chain "ON" all of the time*

I keep my overall level output @ -6db I will pull down the master fader sometimes to achieve this.

This has worked for me and I have never pissed off a mastering engineer ever. As a matter of fact I get compliments all the time.
If you don't have any of the above I would suggest you get TC Master X.

spaceman
09-10-2005, 11:11 AM
thanks Pony

the GMLs sound great, tho I have not got one myself!

seems quite intense for a mix bus. what stuff have you done? anything i might know about?
can you post links to your work?

ta

pony
09-11-2005, 07:19 AM
Hey Spaceman-

I do music for film/tv shows.
Credits include:
3 wishes (new show trailer)
six feet under
The OC
Jack and Bobby
Smallville
Vegas
One Tree Hill
everwood
ally mcbeal
party of five
white chicks
the real world
road rules
and many more.
The music is AC to Pop/Rock

spaceman
09-15-2005, 12:13 PM
sweet man....that's quite a roll call. good on ya. getting massive pack 4 and the Tc master X is on there so I will try your tips.

anyone else got any mix bus love?

giffinmike
09-15-2005, 04:04 PM
hey spaceman

sometimes i use the Waves L2 limiter to check the overall loudness of my mix as it might come back from the mastering house. I bypass it on and off to check all the relative levels of my instuments and such in the mix. depending on the types of music you might be mixing, you might not set the limiter to hit as hard. another compressor to try on the mix buss is the Focusrite D2. i know that Tom Lord Alge uses this for mixing rock music towards the end of the chain, or at the end. knocking off 1-2 db only. thats his method for rock music i have read. I have used it like that as well. though his is a real outboard unit, not software. thats one to think about. the mastering engineer i have used, has said to hit as hard as you can on the digital buss, with no peaks hitting. use all the bit depth you can, with no compression. He is a great mastering engieneer and has done a lot of stuff. then others have told me to leave the peak at -6db, or even -2 to -3 db. just depends on the mastering facility. the charles dye chain you are referring to, i believe, is also a good method as well. just different plugs. i dont need to recite any of what he says he does, as you have most likely read it.

I mix it up a tiny bit. i go AC1, then valve if needed? sometimes not........Any master EQ, you can use Pultec, Focusrite, any of them if you feel its needed. Then i use DUY Wide. Then the Waves Lin MB, in multi-opto mode. Then the Waves L2, with somtimes -10 on the reduction, somtimes -4 or -6. Depends on if I am doing House, Hip Hop, Rock, whatever. Certain types of music, certain mix engineers, obviously do things differntly.

As far as bouning the final mix to go to a mastering house, i only leave the AC1 on the master mix. Thats, just the way i have done it. Pony gave some great advice and obviously knows what he is talking about. So i guess pick, choose, experiment.

Good luck, hope this helps, let me know if i can help ya anymore.

giffinmike

scottgreiner
09-16-2005, 12:51 AM
sweet man....that's quite a roll call. good on ya. getting massive pack 4 and the Tc master X is on there so I will try your tips.

anyone else got any mix bus love?



SSL Stereo compressor. It's the sound of pop/rock. Sometimes a little EQ before and after.

Everyone says turn the limiter off in TC MasterX, but I find it to be the opposite. For maximizing loudness (necessary evil) I've had great success shutting everything off BUT the limiter and jacking the input while setting the output at -0.1. Seems to get about 2dB more than L1/L2 before turning to mush.

spaceman
09-16-2005, 05:35 PM
thanks for the replies...

I use Waves Lin EQ and Oxford Inflator when I do demos for people jsut so it sounds like a rough master.

But would not do this to send to mastering house. Problem I found is how much EQ do you do on the mix bus. maybe best to leave it off altogether?

Also it seems common practice to get 1-2 dbs of nice mix bus compression, but do mixers here mix into it like this (as someone suggested to me today - basically having it switched on from start of the mix) OR bang it on after the mix is finished?

giffinmike
09-16-2005, 09:49 PM
hello

well.... i dont mix with it on all the time and it reads like Pony does. Also if you have read the indepth Charles Dye articles you will see what he says about it, the RECORD BUTTON section. I know that for Rock some of the top mixers dont until the mix is almost or "is" finished. I can only speak for what i have read in some of the posts and for myself. What i would strongly suggest, is that until you are really comfortable with applying good Mix buss compression, and are sure it is helping you and not hurting your mix and that you have a really good plug or outboard unit for mix buss compression....dont apply it permantley to the mix or rely on listening to it the whole time throughout the mixing process. As it could possibly cause problems with your overall mix, especially if you end up taking it off for some reason in the end or whatever after you might have had it on the whole time. Until you have got it down. That being said, play with it when you have time and practice. What i have read and do often, is turn it on here and there just to see how its tying everything together, as a sweetner and close to last addition. Maybe try sending multiple mixes to the mastering house you use next time. One with some compression on and one with none. The place i have used, has allowed me to send them multiple mixes so they can choose the one that will work best, for them, or in general. Some places will do that for you and not charge any extra. I have never really had any many problems with my mixes and the mastering houses. They usually think its just fine and done well. First few mixes i ever sent were a tiny bit muddy, other than that, they were ok. Adding mix buss compression is often met with many different opinions, pending on who's talking. Im sure you will get both sides of it from many members. Maybe setup a link for people on this site to listen to a version of your mix with it on and one off or whatever to help you out and give their opinions. Hope this helps and doesnt sound to elementary.

peace

giffinmike

Bryan Cook
09-18-2005, 01:55 AM
Also it seems common practice to get 1-2 dbs of nice mix bus compression, but do mixers here mix into it like this (as someone suggested to me today - basically having it switched on from start of the mix) OR bang it on after the mix is finished?



as a record mixer I feel its important to mix INTO overall treatment to know what you are dealing with because I think it truly does affect the relative balances. i like to mix with compression, eq and limiting on the mix bus. i usually mellow out the limiter a little before printing but keep it on because i feel i have mixed into it, its shaping of the attacks and releases are part of the sound. but it is very true that you can't un-do it and too much will put your mix in a hole you can't get out of. its sort of like a drug in that sense. so don't over-do it!

depending on the style of music, the compression (not limiting) is definitely part of the "mix" process IMHO. it will certainly affect where you put your faders. whereas chilling out the limiter before printing won't destroy your balances as much as change the average/felt volume, usually. but i find taking the limiter off entirely sometimes i am surprised at mastering time. i always print a vocal up and sometimes an alternate bass and kick volume (grouped together) so that, if for example the mastering engineer adds tons of bottom which feels great overall but maybe obscures the vocal, they could use the vocal up mix instead.

if its generally recorded without eq it usually needs to be brightened up a bit, but as a mixer it seems highly important to adjust that on a global verses individual basis. i always go back and forth between adding eq on a global or individual level, especially regarding the lead vocal.

thephatboi
09-18-2005, 04:43 PM
I agree about mixing through plugs you are pretty sure you are going to use on the 2 bus. I do bypass them occasionally to make sure they are doing what I want and not hurting the mix. Alot of plug ins affect the sound even if you are not processing much so I want to be mixing through the ones I am going to use otherwise it can be like starting over when you put them on if you were mixing without them. I personally don't like to leave everything up to the mastering engineer since you know what sort of sound you are going for and it is your baby. I am in favour of a fair bit of compression on the mix bus, the most important thing with compression to me is release time; make sure it is fast enough so it doesn't muddy up things or make it sound sluggish. I usually Iike a medium attack and fairly fast release depending on program. Also the comment about bringing two versions of a song to the mastering guy is valid ( one cleaner and another with the processing you think you want), sometimes it will save your ass or at least time. Compare alot with commercial cds in a similar genre to see how you are comparing to the norm and then you can decide if you want to process more or less than what others have done. Have fun and experiment.

5280Sound
09-28-2005, 09:54 AM
If your sending it out of house for mastering Check with the mastering Engineer many of them perfer to have the sessions on Dat's or Tape and many of them perfer to have a clean bounce with nothing on the Master Bus as well as no Fades.

5280Sound
09-28-2005, 09:54 AM
If your sending it out of house for mastering Check with the mastering Engineer many of them perfer to have the sessions on Dat's or Tape and many of them perfer to have a clean bounce with nothing on the Master Bus as well as no Fades.

K.I.
10-08-2005, 09:21 AM
I use Sony Oxford Limiter and DUY MagicEQ.
As a result, one rank mix is bright as much after mastering. Please hear you.