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View Full Version : wide-DOUBLED guitar tips


Ken P
07-16-2005, 11:36 AM
i have been trying to get a good doubled guitar sound and haven't had much luck. i tried the doubler plug from waves too and all i seem to get are chorus and flange fx and not a real wide guitar sound in my mixes. any tips?

lonestarparis
07-16-2005, 12:20 PM
I usually have a good guitarist (guess who..) play the same part twice and pan hard left/right. There is no better way imo.

Chris Cavell
07-16-2005, 01:08 PM
Yep...get a second amp and track the pair of them at one time...or actually double the part.

s.d. finley
07-16-2005, 02:38 PM
This is what i like to do.....if the amp you are using can support two 4-12 cabinets, face the 2 cabs away from one another, and set either w/ 2 of the same kind of mic or 2 different mics. Record these on seperate tracks....and you have perfectly doubled tracks!!

Of course, try messing w/ the phase, and line up the tracks to taste....if needed!!

rock

sdf

Ken P
07-16-2005, 03:39 PM
excellent tips! i knew the only way was to do it RIGHT from the get go. it never fails though that a guy i am working with wants the thick doubled sound after the fact. i guess i will tell him we can't sugar the turd, cuz we all know no matter how much sugar you put on it...

Chris Cavell
07-17-2005, 08:21 AM
reamp the crunched sound through a clean amp...sometimes it works

albee1952
07-17-2005, 07:48 PM
While it won't be as cool as real double-tracking, you could duplicate the existing track and then treat the duplicate with Amplitube or Guitar Rig to alter the sound. Try sliding it later about 1600 samples(Alt-H). Maybe call up Serato Pitch'n Time and de-tune it by -4 cents. Boost one track at certain frequencies and cut the same frequencies on the other track. Be creative.

bakerusc
07-18-2005, 11:05 AM
This is great info! I love this kind of threads!

InvalidInk
07-22-2005, 12:21 PM
Also when using multipile guitar mics I usually take one and delay my 20 ms and maybe a hint of reverb mess with panning, That will get you a really wide sound and add so depth to the guitars.

Ken P
07-22-2005, 12:36 PM
this is a great tip, but once before i tried something similar and i believed it caused some phase issues when monitoring the mix in mono...i figured the best way is to double track the guitar like others have mentioned, i.e. rec 2 passes, rather than record 1 pass with 2 mic's. however i would love to try this out too on my next session. any specifics on mic placement in a dual mic situation to acheive my desired effect?

PsyCoNo
07-22-2005, 06:44 PM
Very subtle changes in the riff to one of the sides can make the track even more interesting too... spice to taste!

LDH
08-15-2005, 07:50 AM
Use 3 mics and record them onto 3 tracks, put an omni 10cm away from the grill, pan it left, put a figure of 8 mic next to it 10cm away from the omni and 10cm from the guitar cab and pan right. Have the polar pattern of the fig8 ponting at the omni, not facing the guitar cab!!!!!!! Then put a cardoid mic in between the two mics, about half a meter back pointing directly at the cab. (keep the pan in the middle.)

You can then control the double effect with the close mics and the phase is kept under controll by the cardioid.

Works Well!

lonestarparis
08-15-2005, 08:55 AM
Excuse me, LDH. What is a figure of 8 mic?

Ken P
08-15-2005, 08:59 AM
it's the polar pattern on the mic, i.e. cardioid, hyper-cardioid, omni, FIGURE 8, etc...

that is a great tip, i will denfinately try it out! most importantly the figure 8 placement. i have a 414 i sometimes use on guitars, but never tried the figure 8 pattern, especialy as you mentioned... very interesting, indeed!

doogler
08-21-2005, 07:20 PM
High guys, have a look at waves grt.

lonestarparis
08-21-2005, 10:55 PM
These polar patterns, are they standardized? I mean, has every mic the same 8 pattern (measured in cm/inches)?

Ken P
08-22-2005, 06:03 AM
no... cheaper condenser mic's generally have cardioid standard, but as you move up the quality chain, others have different polar pattern as well as hi pass filter switches. btw, the measurement is the distance for placement from the speaker, nothing to do with the mic itself. hope this helps!

deafmute1
08-22-2005, 11:57 PM
for really wide guitars or wide stereo overheads on drums, I can always try to use a figure of 8 mic which you put do that the two poles are facing up and down the guitar... ie across the guitar and not facing it. then use another mic facing the guitar. then what you do is patch a copy of the figure of eight mic and patch it into a third track. Then invert the phase of that mic. the way to patch it is that you put the original figure of eight left, the normal mic centre and the copied and phase inverted signal on the right. when you bring the left and right faders up, this widens the stereo field, and when you bring the centre channel forward, it narrows the stereo field again. I think this is call M & S middle and sides. (not sure). this works really well on overheads and I use it a lot for this purpose. occasionally on acoustic guitars if it's the main instrument in the song. In that case, I always use a third mic pointing to the neck of the guitar to get some of that scheen in the sound. hope this helps.

theom
08-30-2005, 04:22 PM
In the old days a way to get the fake wide doubled effect was a hass type ddl on a delay send.

It is always better to really play the part again to a separate track but the hass effect ddl trick can be cool.

Set up a mono send on an internal bus, say bus 1.

anything you want to be fake doubled, send to bus 1 aux send at unity
hard pan the source L

make a mono aux rtn track
makes it's input bus 1
pan its output hard right

Call up a short delay on the insert of the aux rtn track.
make the delay 100% wet
choose something between 9-20ms
if you want you can experimment with a tiny amount of modulation like 3 percent at 4 hz to get it to be a little more random sounding.

The aux track should be up at unity and hard panned right.

The big problem with this is when a mix is summed to mono, you will get some weird sounding cancellation. This can be avoided by changing the ddl time. but it will be there. Who listens in mono anyway right?

try it. you might like it.

GMitchell
09-01-2005, 03:31 PM
This won't work in every case - but if you don't have easy access to re recording double track often you can just create doubling track, digital editing provides a nice work around...

given that much music can be.. um.. repetitive - take riff and slip it off by one phrase (easiest if working with tempo map and nudge it) tag extra phrase from head at end and -voila - second pass same guit, same amp - pan wide - double track.

(Have had good comments back from musicians who find their part sounds bigger all-of-sudden!)

of course this is only gonna work when you have the material already in tracks